rottie
Dodge Spacevan
Posts: 43
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Post by rottie on Dec 18, 2008 22:59:19 GMT
just out of interest but why cant you use a hunter block in an early scepter say.. me and a mate did this and the only thing we changed was the plate behind the timing gears that the engine mounts went onto.. everything else seemed to fit ok???
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Paul
Singer Chamois
Apine II, Alpine V, Tiger I, Albatross Alpine, Tatra 603-T2, Gordon Keeble.
Posts: 5
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Post by Paul on Nov 17, 2011 10:18:01 GMT
Now for a short history of the Hillman OHV 4 cyl. Started as a 1390 cc engine in the 1956 Series I Rapier/Minx, with iron head and 3 main bearings. Bored to 1494 cc for the 1958 Minx III. in this capacity it was also fitted with an alloy head for the first Alpine and the Rapier III (Minxes/Gazelles/Huskys continued to use the iron head. It was bored to 1592 for the Alpine II and this block also used in Minxes, Super Minxes, Vogues, Septres etc. In about 1965 it was revamped into the 1725 (actually 1724cc ) version. It has the same bore as the 1592 but a longer stroke - this is a different block, having 5 main bearings instead of 3 and is easily identified - on the early versions, dipstick goes into a tube attached to the sump, on 1725s it goes straight into the block. 1725s have other internal differences like the oil pump/dissy drive. The first 1725s were used in Alpine V, Minx VI, Super Minx/Vogue IV, Sceptre II. The Arrow/Hunter range also used 1725 but they were canted over and mounted differently. You can easily use a Hunter block in an early (Audax) car, but it's near impossible to put an Audax block into a Hunter. During the lifetime of the Hunter the 1496 version of the 1725 was made by reducing the bore - this was to make a more economical motor. Finally, you can't just bolt an alloy head onto a block originally fitted with an iron head. The valve sequence is different, so you have to change the cam and inlet/exhaust manifolds. The carbs are also different. Hope this helps Vic An excellent summary but just a couple of corrections if you'll forgive me:- The 1,390cc engine is earlier than you say and was first introduced in 1954 on the Phase VIII Minx and then fitted to the Series I Rapier in October 1955 with the compression ratio increased from 7:1 to 8:1. The 1,496cc engine was produced by reducing the stroke of the 1,724cc engine, not the bore - the blocks are the same but the crank and con-rods are different. On earlier blocks there are more differences which complicate fitting an alloy head to a block originally intended for an iron head. The water holes which feed the kidney-shaped holes in the head are offset so that the ones by cylinders 2 and 3 nearest the centre of the block are almost totally obscured by the alloy head gasket so they have to be plugged and new holes drilled in the block face to mate with the gasket cut-outs. Early blocks also have a water passageway on the exhaust valve side of cylinder 1 which is absent from later blocks and needs plugging if a gasket without this hole is used in order to avoid the possibility of leaks towards the front of the engine.. As a matter of interest, there was also an extremely rare marine version of this engine.
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Paul
Singer Chamois
Apine II, Alpine V, Tiger I, Albatross Alpine, Tatra 603-T2, Gordon Keeble.
Posts: 5
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Post by Paul on Nov 17, 2011 10:24:25 GMT
Also looking into dates the Arrow cars pre-date the Avenger by a few years hence why they never stuck the Avenger 1500 in the base model Minx/Hunter. I'm not sure this is strictly true. Didn't some later Iran Khodro Paykans use 1,498cc Avenger engines before the Peugeot unit?
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Paul
Singer Chamois
Apine II, Alpine V, Tiger I, Albatross Alpine, Tatra 603-T2, Gordon Keeble.
Posts: 5
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Post by Paul on Nov 17, 2011 10:31:42 GMT
just out of interest but why cant you use a hunter block in an early scepter say.. me and a mate did this and the only thing we changed was the plate behind the timing gears that the engine mounts went onto.. everything else seemed to fit ok??? You can. Late Series V Alpines, for example, have blocks with the Arrow range mounting lugs cast into them but are still fitted with the steel front mounting plate. Effectively exactly what you produced.
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Post by lemansvk on Nov 24, 2011 10:15:13 GMT
The 1,390cc engine is earlier than you say and was first introduced in 1954 on the Phase VIII Minx . I still wonder why people insist on calling Mark Minxes "Phase". The Rootes factory literature (handbooks, manuals, parts lists) constantly and consistently refer to them as "Mark". www.sa.hillman.org.au/ID_Minx1946.htmI suspect the habit arises from Michael Sedgwick, who never forgave Rootes for taking over Sunbeam instead of letting the name die
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Paul
Singer Chamois
Apine II, Alpine V, Tiger I, Albatross Alpine, Tatra 603-T2, Gordon Keeble.
Posts: 5
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Post by Paul on Nov 26, 2011 7:53:13 GMT
I recall my Father's 1950 Phase IV Minx (on which I passed my driving test) being so called back then. It may be because the Mark designation wasn't introduced until III and folks had already started calling the first two Phase I and Phase II.
Anyway, the important point was that the 1,390cc engine was introduced earlier than originally stated.
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