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Post by 63 Alpine on Oct 18, 2008 13:18:17 GMT
I know the 1725 Rootes engines (and the smaller variants) have a reputation for being tappety, but just how tappety is tappety? My engine's tappets seem very loud. I've just checked all the tappets and 6 of them were spot on and 2 were a tiny bit out, so I know they're adjusted properly. Also, what on earth is up with the domed nuts that hold the rocker cover on? They're no 1/2", they're not 9/16", they're not 13mm and they're not 14mm Cheers Nick
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Post by v8sceptre on Oct 18, 2008 18:29:50 GMT
Hi Nick
You're right, the Rootes 1725cc engines are 'tappetty' but generally it's not anything to worry about. Timing chain rattle is quite common too, even with a new chain and tensioner.
As for the rocker cover nuts, they are 1/4" UNF on the Sceptre, but these aren't the domed variety. A 1/4" UNF Bolt would normally have an across flats (AF) size of 7/16". but your domed nuts, even though original are likely to be specials - my guess is they are actually 1/2" across flats (1/2"AF) but the chrome plating (I'm assuming they're chromed?) makes the difference between a 1/2" AF spanner fitting or not fitting.
Trev
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Post by Rootes on Oct 18, 2008 20:06:55 GMT
Oddly, I don't recally the tappets on my 1725 Septic being noisy at all. Though in hindsight of course the blowing exhaust and rumbling big ends may have drowned them out....
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Post by 63 Alpine on Oct 19, 2008 7:27:02 GMT
Hi Nick You're right, the Rootes 1725cc engines are 'tappetty' but generally it's not anything to worry about. Timing chain rattle is quite common too, even with a new chain and tensioner. As for the rocker cover nuts, they are 1/4" UNF on the Sceptre, but these aren't the domed variety. A 1/4" UNF Bolt would normally have an across flats (AF) size of 7/16". but your domed nuts, even though original are likely to be specials - my guess is they are actually 1/2" across flats (1/2"AF) but the chrome plating (I'm assuming they're chromed?) makes the difference between a 1/2" AF spanner fitting or not fitting. Trev Thanks Trev. I'm not so worried about the noise as I am bothered by it! If it wern't for the Alpine's lovely exhaust note, all you would here are the tappets! The tappets are pretty loud when you're driving too. Initially I though that there was a blocked rocker oil feed as a quick glance down the filler neck showed very little oil, but when I actually removed the rocker cover yesterday I was pleased to see everything very nice and oiled...and the other thing I was please to see (or not to see you might say) was no mayonnaise! Every other pushrod engine I've had (even the Beetle) has suffered from a little mayonnaise, but the Alpine is clean. It's been suggested to me that the rockers could be grooved and as such setting the gaps correctly with feelers is not working, so I might try doing with the Clikadjust I bought about 3 years ago but have not yet used (wanted to use it yesterday but you need a 1/2" socket with 1/2" drive, which I don't have, and would you believe how difficult it is to get any AF sockets these days - Halfords only sell them either in a strip (but 3/8" drive) or in a very expensive set). Nick
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srf
Chrysler Avenger
One of the few owners in this area
Posts: 22
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Post by srf on Nov 6, 2008 19:25:19 GMT
I have just replaced the cam and followers in my Rapier in an effort to quieten it. It ran loads better but the noise was still there. I only managed to improve matters by using a click adjust, now it is much better.
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rottie
Dodge Spacevan
Posts: 43
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Post by rottie on Nov 28, 2008 18:07:02 GMT
myn's were noisy.. turned out the actual shaft was worn and it was the arms chattering on that.. second hand rocker shaft cured that temporarily.. then found a couple of the locking nuts had little thread left in them and they were loosening off again..
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Post by bratfink on Feb 1, 2009 15:42:14 GMT
Rottie is right, those shafts wear badly adding to the general valvetrain noise.
AF socket sets are available and pretty cheap from Machine Mart, 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 drive all available from very small to about 1". Then you can get specialty sockets individually (i.e. for the harmonic balancer). Halfords is only useful for buying stick on bits for Saxo's!
When I adjust my rockers I actually go 0.001" under the factory tollerance, this does quiet things down a little but you will always hear some tapping, it's just a function of the engine design. Make sure you are not turning the adjuster out slightly when you tighten up the lock nut. You think you have it set correctly only to ruin it all by not locking it off correctly.
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rottie
Dodge Spacevan
Posts: 43
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Post by rottie on Feb 1, 2009 19:21:43 GMT
hi bratfink do the harmonic balancers offered by some companies (alloy versions) do anything to help vibration?
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srf
Chrysler Avenger
One of the few owners in this area
Posts: 22
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Post by srf on Feb 1, 2009 20:58:02 GMT
bratfink is right about tappet noise, in fact noisy tappets are preferable to ones that are too tight. If there is not enough clearance the valves can easily be burned.
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Post by bratfink on Feb 2, 2009 15:21:25 GMT
hi bratfink do the harmonic balancers offered by some companies (alloy versions) do anything to help vibration? Not really, the stock dampers were steel and very heavy, I can't see how a light ally damper can correct any vibration that a steel damper is not correcting. If it does it means the steel damper was out upsetting the whole thing to start with. I purchased one of these said ally dampers myself. I found 0.015" of runout on the shaft fitting!!! I went ahead and individually balanced the crank then added the flywheel and balanced that assembly, then added the new damper. It made almost no difference (even with the runout). So I didn't bother taking any material off that. If you see the inside diameter of the hole is scrolled it probably means the company that machined them did the ID too large and it won't fit your crank to the correct tollerance. The scrolling seems to be their method trying to take out the extra play! My motor now runs quite smoothly, for a 1725.
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Post by bratfink on Feb 2, 2009 15:24:50 GMT
Oh, and when you give up trying to get a new crank end nut (The stupid stud design with the swiss cheese starting handle nut) just get an old series land rover one. With a washer to space out the extra thread depth it fits perfectly!
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rottie
Dodge Spacevan
Posts: 43
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Post by rottie on Feb 2, 2009 17:49:12 GMT
lol know all about scrolling... bought a cylinder head and the guides had been scrolled to "tolerance", that went back pretty sharpish
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kkj
Singer Chamois
Posts: 6
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Post by kkj on May 9, 2009 16:36:19 GMT
I have taken some rocker assembly's apart and they where usually clogged up and oil was uneven distributed. One reason for this can be seen if you run the engine with the cover off and a lot of oil is coming out from the T-piece where it is meeting the rocker shaft. If it's leaking put a thin O-ring at one side of the T-piece. More oil will go out to all rockers and it will be less wear and in the less noise.
As said before: the engine have some valve train noise that we have to live with.
Kristian J Sweden
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